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May 16, 2008 at 09:25 AM CDT

View Comments: 43

Time For a Change?

Posted by: Racs-MC



There has been a lot of discussion lately about the selection of Forza 2 as an official game and more importantly the rule set that will be used for CGS competitions. Most have come to accept the inclusion of the racing simulator over the arcade style PGR 3 used last season and a lot of racers even applauded the move to a simulated environment. However there is still a lot of unrest regarding the rule set that was founded in the arcade style PGR 3 and now applied to the simulated environment of Forza 2. The two sourest points for competitors by far are the totally unrealistic collisions rule and the 3, 2, 1, go method of starting each race.

Before we go into depth on each of these issues we should also emphasize that both these parts of the rule set can be practiced to maximize efficiency and speed, however the collisions rule seems to introduce a case that is very hard to maximize your chances of a successful outcome. Forza 2 is the only official CGS game where players are required to start the match with empty hands while the controllers await a countdown by an official or model. In a game where tenths of seconds mean the difference between first and last there has to be a more appropriate method to kick of each match. We are beginning to see the days when practicing the controller pickup are much more important then being able to squeeze and extra tenth of a second off a lap time. Given that collisions in almost every case determine the outcome of any race I decided to ask some of the top Forza players if collisions are something the can be practiced or mastered in order to maximize recovery or avoid the contact all together.

Ch0mpr: It really is weird. Sometimes you'll do something you're supposed to, and you'll make a good hit or make a nice avoid move. Other times, you'll do almost the exact same thing and get punished. In most cases, if you do the right thing you'll have better than 50/50 odds, but not by much.

Cam: You can work out the prime take out spots, and try to be ready, but it’s not a give and take situation; whoever is behind is in the box seat. Starting 1st on the grid is a tough position you can try and let racers go by or you can go for the first corner and get taken out, even if you attempt to let players go past all it takes is a nudge on the rear fender and your gone; its honestly a dead aspect.

Picaso: Collisions can be practiced, and you can be better than someone with collisions, but at most it will be 60/40 situation.

Collisions are a part of any racing environment, whether you’re out on the track or sitting in your living room glued to the TV collisions are an integral part of racing. In real life collisions leave you out of the race in hospital or even worse, however in the confines of computer games collisions are safe for participants and spectacular for viewers. This brings us to the first point, why pick up a simulated game if you cannot simulate the rules and conditions of real life competitions. We aren’t suggesting players that crash should endure physical damage but rather if you want to use a complex simulator you cannot expect the rules taken from an arcade game to work effectively. When asked if the current rule set allowed the results to be a fair indication of racing skill and speed the racers had this to say:

Ch0mpr: No, because a huge part of the game is the randomness of the collisions in the game.

Cam: What makes a racer better than the other racer? Speed and a cool head under pressure! With the current rules no one can demonstrate the skill and hours of practice it takes to be fast; the best racers are separated by tenths of a second; so getting t-boned at the first corner decides the outcome of the race. If an intentional takeout costs you 4 seconds to recover there is no way you can pull back 4 seconds in the duration of the race. What people have to understand is, to t-bone someone is as easy as pulling the trigger; skill is not rewarded in this scope. No other game is played in a way which potentially negates the skill factor, the team work and the hours of practice put in to become the fastest. That would be my biggest gripe, the rule set doesn’t reward skill and practice and in a game about precision and timing this is the most frustrating part of playing under the current rule set.

Picaso: Well, my personal opinion is no, there is different physics to the first seasons game PGR, it takes a lot longer to brake and turn, which means you don’t have to be as close to crash someone off the track. There is no skill involved in crashing into someone and poor collisions in the game make it a case of chance.

We can argue the merits of the current rules forever; however instead let us explore the merits of other options. Lets ignore the introduction of the damage system (The damage system in Forza allows cars to receive simulated damage and as a result cars performance, handling and speed are affected) do to the fact the damage is unfair because a slower racer can deliberately take out a faster opponent for his team mate. The first option that jumps to mind is that of playing a simulator in much the same way that real life races are run. This would include the removal of intentional takeouts and contact and require a method of determining what is just ‘racing contact’ and what is ‘intentional contact’. One such method would involve referees to be watching each player and the distance meter to be consulted in order to determine if the racers are at a suitable range for contact to be unintentionally caused.

The second option would see the use of another built in game feature called ghosting, ghosting or ghost mode allows cars to drive through each other and it is impossible to collide with your opponents. This would be the ultimate test of speed and precision as racers can take whatever line they like around the track. However the removal of line defense and brake checking is again a step away from playing a simulator like its real life counterpart. This is what the racers had to say when asked what rule changes they would make in order to place greater emphasize on racing while maintaining excitement for viewers:

Ch0mpr: This is the hard part. Even if they were willing to change the rule set, it would be difficult to come up with some solid rules. Obviously I'd prefer to have no intentional collisions, but sometimes it's hard to distinguish the two.

Cam: The methods mentioned above are two ways to better reward skill while maintaining excitement. Having 4 referees that actually understand racing and are able to rule on intentional collisions would be great. There is a distance meter in game which indicates how far someone has come to hit you, so a hit from 20 yards or less I could live with, but if you come from more than 20 yards that should be penalized. At least that way there will still be rubbing, and some take outs, but at least that way the aggressor will have to earn the right to do so. Collisions off in my opinion will show who is the fastest, and which team is actually better at the game. WCG use this system, and has produced some amazing races; the focus would have to move to other aspects of the game. For example: Picaso is 30 yards ahead of cam; cam is breaking world records to catch him; .2 of a lap faster etc. After races like these with the top players around the world I honestly shake a little because it is so intense.

Picaso: Take collisions off! We were actually racing today with 3 of the top guys in the gam; the race was extremely exciting, with the lead changing every corner and people finishing .3 seconds from each other.

It is common sense that the best place to be in any race is out in front, being in front of you opponent means that you are winning and producing faster lap times. However from watching races so far this season I would argue that being slightly behind your opponent is a much better position to be in. If you are in front it is inevitable that your opponent will be trying to run you into the wall at the next opportunity. After laying all this on the table one thing is inevitable this season; if the rules remain in their current state you will see an environment where the best players are not rewarded for all their skill and practice. With so many complex options each with unique pros and cons there seems to be no simple answer to address all the concerns raised by both viewers and players of Forza 2.

There are a number of other players besides those mentioned in the article that have valid opinions to share on the Forza 2 rule set and some we even attempted to contact. In the end we went to the players with the fastest lap times, like the other games those at the pinnacle of their community are often more qualified to comment on aspects addressed in these styles of articles.



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#1

May 16, 2008 at 09:37 AM CDT

spunj
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it seems from that article that the rule set benfits the slower racers =/
really not showing who is the fastest racer, but who gets the luckiest from collisions... !!

good read none the less!

Last modified on 5/16/2008 at 9:41 am EST

#2

May 16, 2008 at 09:41 AM CDT

Racs-MC
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Remember that the GMs made their choices based on this rule set, if the rules were different I imagine some of the selections would have been different as well.

#3

May 16, 2008 at 09:57 AM CDT

iCamv1
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i really hope something can be done

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#4

May 16, 2008 at 10:47 AM CDT

haroutig10
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i think with or without its the mighty cam ftw...

the voice of reason and the wonder boy makes one sensational human being

#5

May 16, 2008 at 01:54 PM CDT

iCamv1
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rofl indeed he does

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#6

May 16, 2008 at 03:27 PM CDT

GeneralELive
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The ruleset isnt the best but at the same time if it was changed then there would be no reason to have 2 racers per team. These rules will benefit the teams with the best team work, that is what CGS wants. Last season in PGR3 there really wasnt a whole heck of a lot of team work, this season it will be key. If you want to have collisions off or some rule where everyone just races around the track, might as well just cut every race team to 1 driver. Which wont happen!!!!

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#7

May 16, 2008 at 03:52 PM CDT

NITRO
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Good Read

Forza 2 is soo cool wanna play it sometime

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#8

May 16, 2008 at 03:56 PM CDT

iCamv1
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1 forza player 1 quake 4 player?
does it annoy you that i'm faster than you^^^^

Last modified on 5/16/2008 at 4:03 pm EST

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#9

May 16, 2008 at 04:14 PM CDT

Ch0mpr
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great write up!

#10

May 16, 2008 at 05:15 PM CDT

GeneralELive
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There should be a change, the problem is that there isnt a clear awesome, totally able to fix everything rule change!


Last modified on 5/16/2008 at 5:15 pm EST

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#11

May 16, 2008 at 05:29 PM CDT

GeneralELive
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Referenced post #8 by iCamv1
1 forza player 1 quake 4 player?
does it annoy you that i'm faster than you^^^^
#8 No reason to add quake!

You know cam the first thing about being a professional at anything is acting like one, try it!!
Also you are talking pretty immature considering the fact that you are less than a .1 ahead of me on most tracks. I would be afraid if you didnt have faster times considering I dont get more then 1 and a half hours a dat to run laps and scrim! Its actually a really good thing to be humble!

Last modified on 5/16/2008 at 5:43 pm EST

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#12

May 16, 2008 at 06:07 PM CDT

TDR-Illusion
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I think it does anoy him cam

#13

May 16, 2008 at 06:51 PM CDT

GeneralELive
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Nope not in the slightest, I could be the slowest and not think twice about it. I do my job, win races and try my hardest. With the rules the way they are speed doesn't matter. If my team faces cam's and I get 150 meters on cam he may make up .2 a lap but he still loses. Until the rules change cam being as fast as he is doesn't mean a thing. Sorry charlie.Cam is the fastest for sure, but as you can see from pan asia, his team got 2nd overall. I just wish he was more humble, there is nothing worse than a professioal with bad sportsmanship.

Last modified on 5/16/2008 at 8:12 pm EST

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#14

May 16, 2008 at 08:12 PM CDT

iCamv1
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Referenced post #11 by GeneralELive
[quote|8] No reason to add quake!

You know cam the first thing about being a professional at anything is acting like one, try it!!
Also you are talking pretty immature considering the fact that you are less than a .1 ahead of me on most tracks. I would be afraid if you didnt have faster times considering I dont get more then 1 and a half hours a dat to run laps and scrim! Its actually a really good thing to be humble!
#11sorry man i forget about all the cgs events you've been too rofl....think i struck a nerve

iRacer
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#15

May 16, 2008 at 08:39 PM CDT

Eileen
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Wow, cool read. Good work.

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#16

May 16, 2008 at 08:44 PM CDT

Boomser
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I agree with cam , and partly generalelive , but i dont think CGS really choose the new game for TEAMWORK , i think it was a realism appoach , all i see is a bunch of stupid play at the start that looks very messy with players bumping each other , then I see nothing for the next 2 mins of the race cause its fairly hard to catch up ,

Its a racing game and the fastest doesnt get rewarded ..... Sigh

Ive seen morpo get taken out and spun out 3-4 times in a ROW .... was 9 seconds behind a player and ended up 1 second behind him and he was the one trying to take out the other racer , how is that fair

as much as i would love to see the rules change , cgs wont due to the fact of how much time and effort it will take to punish intential collisions , and i reckon 1 outa every 3 games will be turned over due to it

Last modified on 5/16/2008 at 8:49 pm EST

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#17

May 16, 2008 at 08:51 PM CDT

iCamv1
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"Cam is the fastest for sure, but as you can see from pan asia, his team got 2nd overall. I just wish he was more humble, there is nothing worse than a professioal with bad sportsmanship" coming from you....after a nice little edit...your known as one of the biggest cockheads online lol....a little joke and now i'm a bad sport and all the like...but honestly, it annoys you a little bit yeah?!

iRacer
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#18

May 16, 2008 at 09:19 PM CDT

haroutig10
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hows adult friend finder these days?

#19

May 16, 2008 at 09:40 PM CDT

adRwa
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great read, ye i also think the rules should be changed.

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#20

May 16, 2008 at 10:19 PM CDT

GeneralELive
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Sorry mate no nerve struck here, chillin like a villin. Cam you are the fastest, you are so fast that they should have cast you in the speedracer movie.Dude please bless me with your presence online tomarrow almigty racing god!!!!! Seems I have struck a nerve though, all I did was throw out the excuse for why you lost... No need for the rash raged comments. Its all in good spirits!!!

Last modified on 5/16/2008 at 10:38 pm EST

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#21

May 17, 2008 at 12:17 AM CDT

Jimmy-O
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#22

May 17, 2008 at 12:24 AM CDT

spunj
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#23

May 17, 2008 at 01:24 AM CDT

NITRO
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#24

May 17, 2008 at 01:35 AM CDT

Eileen
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Referenced post #23 by NITRO
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#23

rofl. Agree'd We love you Nitro

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#25

May 17, 2008 at 04:18 AM CDT

Racs-MC
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Constructive replies please guys. As the article states there will always be two sides to any issue,

Thanks Ben

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